Think about the last time you lost your smartphone … even for a few minutes, or worse, for a whole day. You were probably cut off from your digital life…let’s face it, cut off from much of life…unable to log in to your bank, maybe even your work computer, you’ve lost your photos, and if you were planning to walk into a concert or pro sports event that night….forget it. Now, imagine living your whole life this way. The digital divide, which feels like a tired phrase from the early days of the Internet, is still quite real. In some ways, it’s getting worse, as more and more of our ‘real’ lives require – -not just Internet access – but up-to-date gadgets, and the skills to use them. That’s where North Carolina’s Office of Digital Equity comes in. It’s a new state agency, led by Maggie Woods, and it’s devoted to making sure the hundreds of thousands of North Carolinians who are currently on the wrong side of the digital divide … are welcomed into the world the rest of us take for granted. This is a transcript of our conversation with her. You can listen by following this link, clicking the play button below, or by searching for the Debugger podcast on your favorite podcast platform.
Debugger is brought to you by Duke University’s Sanford School of Public Policy.
Bob: So, Maggie, we live in a world where I think most people take for granted that everyone is connected to the internet, everyone has a decent enough computer and is watching Netflix and whatnot. But that’s not true, is it?
Maggie Woods: No, it’s not. Um, we know that there are many reasons people might not be connected to the Internet. There’s close to 500,000 households in North Carolina that either don’t have access to the Internet, or have such limited access that we don’t consider it as a household that has Internet access. We also know that a tremendous number of households can’t afford the internet. Actually, there’s more households in North Carolina who aren’t connected to the internet, not because they don’t have the physical access to it, but because they can’t afford the internet. And then, of course, understanding how to use the internet, having the digital skills, or having a computer to connect to the internet are also significant barriers that we see.
Bob: Did you say 500,000 households?
Maggie Woods: Yeah, close to 500,000 households either don’t have internet connection or the connection’s really poor.
Bob: Yeah, I mean, that’s an astonishing number. And just because this might be so far from many people’s reality, can you describe in a sort of tangible way what the impact of that is? What is it like to not be connected at home?
Maggie Woods: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it, it doesn’t take that large of a stretch of an imagination if you just imagine that your internet’s not working for one day, right? How much that is a challenge for you. But because our society is so reliant on the internet, if you don’t have the internet at home, that means in order to apply for a job, most applications for jobs are now online. So in order to apply for a job, you have to physically get somewhere that has internet. So that could mean going to a downtown area. It could mean going to a library. It could mean going to a McDonald’s. It means that if you have a health issue that you need someone to help you with…you also can’t access telehealth services. You have to physically get to a doctor, which in many rural parts where, where most of our connectivity issues are, can be really challenging. I mean, it’s even just … connecting to your online bank account can be a challenge, right? Many of the places that don’t have access to internet also don’t have cell service. And so trying to access the internet through an online application can be immensely challenging. And of course it goes beyond just connectivity because so often people without connectivity also don’t have the digital skills on how to navigate the internet. They may not have a device to connect to the Internet. And so all of these challenges compound on one another and what we call digital equity, which is really just people being able to leverage the full opportunity that the Internet has to offer just sits in the epicenter of many of society’s challenges. So if you’re low income, if you have trouble with transportation…all of those … make not having internet just extra compounded.
Bob: I’m glad you described it the way that you did. I had my smartphone stolen, maybe about a year and a half ago, and the panic that ensues after something like that is, is quite real. I mean, you know, suddenly you realize you’re disconnected. You can’t transfer money. You can’t walk into a concert, get on a plane, really, without your digital passport in the world. So that’s a good metaphor for people to understand if you lose internet for a day how panicky you are. Well, now imagine a life like that.
Maggie Woods: Exactly.
Bob: So you work for something called the North Carolina Office of Digital Equity. What is that?
Maggie Woods: Yeah, so we are a brand new office. We’re about two years old, which is pretty new for state government. And we’re the first office of its kind in the country. And so really our role is to focus on making sure that people have … not just access to the Internet, but we’re really focused on affordable access. Can people afford the Internet …ensuring that people have the devices that they need.
So we estimate 328,000 households in North Carolina don’t have a home desktop or laptop computer, and that only scratches the surface of the issue. We’re also focused on making sure people have the digital skills that they need. And this could mean really basic digital skills. So turning on a computer, creating an internet email account, sending an email. But as we know, the more digital skills you have often the more employable you are. And so really meeting people at where they’re at, and meeting the workforce needs is really important to us. And so we’re interested in both basic, intermediate and advanced digital skills. And then We also need to make sure that people have access to technical support. so if something happens to your computer, does it just end up sitting, collecting dust, at your kitchen table, on your desk.
Bob: One of the things that I read about when I was reading about the program was this concept of resiliency, and again, this hits home for me. I know when Microsoft Word updates and moves some things around I pull my hair out for a day because I can’t adjust to the changes. And that’s a real problem for a lot of people. Maybe the way the family has set up their computer today, it’s simple enough for them, but then something changes and they can no longer access the services they need. So tell me what resiliency means.
Maggie Woods: Yeah, that is a goal of our office. Creating digitally resilient individuals, right? I mean, how often do we go onto a website and suddenly the format looks different, right? I just had to renew my vehicle registration and then the formats changed, um, for the better in my opinion, but so often being digital resilient is just being able to problem solve and navigate as technology changes.
Bob: So what kinds of programs does your office have to reach out and try to address some of these issues?
Maggie Woods: So we’ve spent the last year, uh, listening to the people in North Carolina. So we’ve launched a survey to better understand people’s digital needs, which was both available online, but was also available in paper and in multiple languages. And then, we’ve spent a lot of time connecting with organizations, to connect with people on the ground, really understand what their needs are.
And through that, we recently launched what we call a digital champion grant program. So this is a program that’s meant to empower organizations on the ground to meet digital needs. So we’re looking to fund libraries, schools, local governments, non profits, to tell us what their community needs are, and tell us what programs are needed, and then we will fund those programs.
So that application period just ended, and I am really proud to say, we received tremendous support… 230 applications came in requesting $150 million. We unfortunately only have $14 million to provide, but it just shows you the key needs across North Carolina. So we’re working to identify those chosen applications, and to get some work started.
Bob: There’s so many different needs, and I know that you’re working with populations that folks might not think of right away in terms of trying to integrate or reintegrate into the digital world. One of the populations that has a real challenge here are folks who are undergoing rehabilitation or re-entry from time in prison, for example. Can you talk about the special challenges that they face and how you might address those needs?
Maggie Woods: Yeah, thanks for asking that question. This is a group that we found to be one of the most digitally vulnerable groups. So these are people who often entered prison before there was the Internet or before it was as ubiquitous as it is now. And so we’ve heard from them as they’ve left prison. They may never have seen a smartphone. They don’t know how to make call on a smartphone let alone open a laptop and connect to the Internet. And so, it’s a, it’s a very specific need. These groups often have some of the lowest literacy as well. And so, really trying to focus on what their specific digital needs are. And then, you know, as we talked about … digital resiliency. Even if people entered prison having used a smartphone, smartphones have changed so significantly even in the last couple years. And so as people leave, relearning how to use that technology can be really, can be really challenging, right? And in order to get a job, in order to access your bank account, in order to go to the doctor, in order to do almost anything. you need to have access to the internet. And so it’s definitely a very specific challenge that folks in reentry have. And so one of the ways that we’re trying to address this is partnering with the Department of Adult Correction so that there are more trainings available while people are in prison. So we’re working with them to upfit smart classrooms and ensure there are enough laptops for inmates to use before they come out of prison. And then our hope is to really partner with organizations serving folks in re-entry so that we can better under Understand those needs and better provide funding to meet those needs on the ground.
Bob: So I’m hoping, I would think that folks listening to this podcast might be involved… might be from other states and thinking about creating an office like yours. Do you have any suggestions or recommendations for another state that was thinking about creating its own office of digital equity?
Maggie Woods: So at the moment, every state is focused on digital equity as a part of some broader policy efforts that are have happened through the Biden administration. So every state is developing a digital equity plan. And so, uh, for the first time ever, there are people focused on this issue across, uh, across the country, which is really exciting. But I think having an office just focused…..so we have a sister office. That’s our broadband infrastructure office. They’re focused on the infrastructure. We’re focused on all of those other elements of the digital divide. It means that we can spend our time really focused on this issue and bring attention to it in a way that I think would be challenging to do if we didn’t have our own office.
And so you know, this is something that …talk to your legislature, talk to your governor’s office. Really advocate that this should be a solution and that your office, or that your state should have an office of Digital Equity and literacy.
Bob: Maggie Woods from the North Carolina Office of Digital Equity. Thank for being here.
Maggie Woods: Thanks so much, Bob.
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